Jonathan Zimmerman argued in his article, Are College Students Learning?, that colleges are not focusing enough on the what students are learning and as a result of that, graduates are coming out of college without valuable skills they should have learned. He noted from President Obama's State of the Union address that college tuition is skyrocketing and that colleges need to do better. Obama's criteria for doing better neglected to mention whether the students learn anything. Two of Zimmerman's colleagues, Richard Arum from New York University and Josipa Roksa from the University of Virginia, conducted a study on more than 2,300 students from 24 varied universities in the U. S. by administering the CLA, or College Learning Assessment, to each student, two or more times throughout their college careers. The CLA is an essay test that measures critical thinking, complex reasoning, and written expression. All of these are valuable skills that students should learn in college. The results of the study showed that a third of the students did not improve those skills from their freshman year to sophomore year and nearly half of them did not improve from their freshman year to senior year. Everyone pays all this money for an education, but are they actually receiving it?
Would you agree or disagree that colleges are focusing a little too much on their research and not enough on what they are teaching and why? Do you think that Virginia Tech has this problem?
I personally believe that the test for the research is ineffective. The two situations the test is about is a plane crashing and crime rates in cities. Now since I intend to major in engineering I would not care about these two situations unless maybe I worked on the plane. People who major in criminal justice or ethics would be more suited to this test. Now I suggest putting a test out for each specific area of expertise if you truly wish to see if students are learning. Honestly, even if schools were doing what they are supposed to it is still too expensive, because there are going to be those crappy, old, teachers that do not teach effectively.
ReplyDeletePS I heard that we have a $50.00 charge for silverware here at Tech, now that is some bull.
To me Zimmerman’s argument seems flawed in so many different ways. The first question I have about his argument is the validity of his method of testing, which he asserts is an indication that undergraduates aren’t improving vital skills required to get jobs. The College Learning Assessment better known as a standardized test is a ridiculous attempt of trying to quantify the knowledge college students are obtaining from their lessons. Can you imagine an Engineering major and an English major being required to take the same test? Unless the test was a basic skill test like addition, in which case it would be a meaningless test, the two majors shouldn’t be expected to score the same on the test. The skills his colleges sought to qualify were tested with questions like advising “an executive about whether his company should purchase that type of plane.” This test was made very broad and probably doesn’t actually measure the skills gained by a vast majority of majors for example an Ancient history major would have no clue how to approach this problem and nor should he because it wasn’t was his education was based on. In addition to this blaming the schools for all the shortcomings of students seem silly. The article makes it seem like the students are doing all their work and the university just isn’t giving them enough to challenge them and allow them to learn. I know from firsthand experience not all of the students finish all their work some of them don’t even go to class to learn what their tuition is paying for so blaming the school for the fact those students have learned would be ludicrous but Zimmerman seems to skate right over this issue.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of whether his argument is flawed I think Zimmerman brings up some valid points. My oldest sister graduated from UVA while my other sister and I are studying at Virginia Tech. From hearing and seeing both perspectives I think I can say yes, some schools are focusing too much on their research and not enough on their students. At UVA my sister had several instances where her classes were not even taught by the teacher: the professor was off writing his book while the T.A.’s were attempting to adequately prepare the students. In addition, the advising at UVA was not easily accessible, students were forced to figure things out on their own. In starch comparison, Virginia Tech is quite the opposite. Professors are very involved, some do have teacher’s assistants but most help with grading or study sessions. Furthermore, advising is everywhere! Career services, the writing center, individual advisors. These advisors are important to helping students learn how to plan and ask the right kind of questions. Therefore I do not think the question “Would you agree or disagree that colleges are focusing a little too much on their research and not enough on what they are teaching and why?” because it varies from school to school. I will say that some schools should revaluate some of their priorities and their methods.
DeleteI am most definietly one person who believes that we are paying too much for the education that we are getting. Not only does this article mention that, but there's so many articles/ youtube ads that show how what we are learning now isn't going to be of much use later. Basically, we're learning technology skills and paying for an education that will be out when we graduate. I do see that James does have a point. After reading this article I thought that this guy was pretty smart, but I didn't question his testing methods. James though did. I understand the test, but like how James questioned it the way he did. The results did show that they didn't improve, but I think another test should be given. I think every university is going to come up with this problem in some way. Someone will always say that their not getting the bang for your buck. But ultimitly it's your education. You choose to take the classes so choose the ones that are going to affect you the most once you graduate. Don't just sit back and choose not to improve. Try. It's not all the colleges fault.
ReplyDeleteI think this is an example of people “making” data to achieve their goal. To judge how much you have learned by a standardized test is ridiculous. I have only been in college for one full semester and my knowledge has grown exponentially. Although I have taken some of the classes in high school, college requires so much more dedication and forces you to teach yourself many skills you didn’t use in the past.
ReplyDeleteI can see the argument being made in this article and think that at some schools; students are essentially buying their diplomas. The material being taught is not always relevant to the profession that we are pursuing but there is really no other way around these classes. I also believe that it is not fair to any school to judge them based on a handful of bad professors. I personally favor the teaching of classes by graduate students. I feel that they do a better and more thorough job than tenured professors because they can relate to the students and they understand what their students are feeling. Overall I believe from my experience at Virginia Tech that we do not have that problem here.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with James on the fact that Zimmerman makes a generalization about college students that really cannot be defined by a single examination. There are too many factors in this situation. Supporting this argument with the fact that one test shows a lack of educational retention is pretty absurd due to the fact that college students dont always go through the same experience. I do believe though that whatever applicable knowledge for graduating students, is based on dual responsibility concerning both the students and the university.
ReplyDeleteI do not agree that college students are not learning. However there is a large amount of students that just go to college in order to party and barely skate by with passing grades. Most people learn a lot while they are in college. For example, I personally have learned a lot of useful information in just one semester of being here at Virginia Tech. If I have learned in one semester than I also think that I will learn more in the rest of my college career.
ReplyDeleteI think it all just depends on the system. If you want coast through college, you can, if you want to actually make something of it, then you can as well. There's a reason why so many students from other countries come here, just cause many don't take it seriously doesn't mean its the institutions fault.
ReplyDeleteIt is very difficult to retain a lot of information from classes for very long. I personally remember what I have to for the tests and then forget it all once the class is over. There is simply too much to learn and remember. Although the study may show that the students haven't improved much during their college time, this does not take everything into account. At college, students learn valuable life skills and likely remember the basic principals of the things covered in class. College is a lot more than academics and students learn a lot of important information about the real world. In addition, many students don't take college as seriously as they should and simply do the bare minimum to scrape by. Just because students are lazy doesn't mean the college is in the wrong.
ReplyDeleteLike I have always been told, college is what you make of it. In the college classroom it is not the job of the teacher to make sure everyone comprehends the material being presented. It is the students’ job to ask questions and see the teacher for extra help. If students are not getting what they paid for maybe they need to work harder in the classroom. Why is it always someone else’s fault? The university’s job is to teach the students the information needed for the real world. For instance as an engineering major, I must learn calculus and physics in order to be understand complex situations. That is the universities job. It is my job to take this new knowledge and apply it to a real world situation. That is why many students get internships and co-ops to gain that valuable work experience not gained in the classroom. And as for this test that 2300 students took. I do not see that as a reliable source of information to base an opinion off of. There are 30,000 students here at tech how could a study of 2300 student begin to remotely tell us anything about the situation.
ReplyDeleteZimmerman does bring up a very interesting point, especially since it's one that many people would question but never actually think about. I believe tuition is way too expensive, and yes students are learning a lot but I feel like it's too much. Students mind learn to retain a lot of information, but it is just too much for anyone to retain for years at a time. If students try hard enough, and just keep repeating the information to themselves throughout the years, then it wouldn't be as difficult to remember everything. In the long run students need all the information they can get in order to get a good job, and be able to do well at this job.
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